| IT jobs coalition to lobby for immigration changes
By:
Shane Schick
- ComputerWorld Canada
(22 Jan 2008)
TORONTO – Every IT manager position that goes unfilled costs the Canadian economy more than $160,000 a year, according to a report released Monday which Bell and other firms will use to lobby for changes to foreign immigration policies. The report, published by the Conference Board of Canada, calculated the economic impact of skill shortages in 15 technology-related positions, using wages, profits per employee and other indirect effects. The latter is based on how IT professionals spend their money, such as money that gets pumped back into the economy, taxes and savings that affect interest rates. The monetary fallout of most vacant IT jobs hovered around the $100,000 mark, including software engineers at more than $150,000 and network operations staff at $106,000. What are you worth? Bell is using the study to spearhead a coalition it formed last month with about two dozen companies such as TD Meloche Monnex and CN Rail, which is tackling the problem of chronic unemployment in the IT profession. Dubbed the Canadian Coalition for IT Succession, the partners said they have already distributed the report to immigration officials at both the federal and provincial level. “I think they were a bit surprised by the magnitude (of the problem),” said Stephane Boisvert, vice-president of Bell Canada’s Enterprise Group, who discussed early government reactions to the report at a press conference. “You have to tell them what your need is, and I think they will be more than willing to do what is necessary.” When the coalition launched in Montreal the emphasis was on working with universities and schools to change perceptions of IT as a profession and develop better curricula, but Boisvert said immigration policy was key to filling the new jobs and jobs which will become vacant from retiring baby boomers in a few years. The coalition has yet to outline specific changes to immigration policy, Boisvert said. The first step is to get across how bad they think the problem is through the report.
From ComputerWorld Canada Members of the coalition will be meeting over the next few weeks to determine more specific steps. Bell is also at work on its own program, called First Jobs, which will attempt to fast-track immigrants with suitable qualifications or education gained abroad into jobs here, Boisvert said. “We do some offshoring in India, and we occasionally bring IT managers in for training purposes. Most of the time these folks would like to stay here,” he said. “I think you have to design your own program to be a beacon to the government.” Michael Bloom, the Conference Board’s executive director of strategic projects, said many companies find workarounds to their employment issues through federal temporary worker programs and provincial “nominee” programs. He also cited data that said by 2011 net population growth will be driven by immigrants. Bloom admitted that some of the Conference Board’s report merely builds on data gathered by the Information and Communications Technology Council (ICTC), whose president Paul Swinwood immediately endorsed the coalition’s efforts. “We are seeing for the first time the industry standing up and saying ‘This is something that needs some attention,’” he said. Bloom said IT jobs usually pay about 45 per cent more than other jobs in Canada, and the way to get more students interested in computer science is to look at the fields that are getting more attention. Requests for enrolment in environmental science programs is up, for example, which may be an opportunity to develop a green IT stream. “There’s a certain amount of popularity to some programs,” he said. “We need to cross-connect those areas (to IT).” Besides attracting new talent into the IT profession, the coalition will create efforts to bring back those who may have been displaced from technology-related jobs during the dot-com crash, the report said.
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| |  | What about the immigrants who are currently driving taxis and have IT experience?
I was one of the fortunate immigrants to get an IT job fairly quickly after comming to Canada. However I know of many immigrants who were not so lucky, right now they are driving taxis, working at jobs not in the IT field or have gone back to thier home country.
Once Canada changes how it views foreign experience the lack of IT workers problem will not be solved |  |
Written by: Kevin McGregor, from | |
| |  | you are right, my friend.
Looks like this kind of articles are just a part of lobbying campaign aimed to boost profits from the immigration. In reality chances for the immigrant to get a decent job (not 10-15 $/h) in IT are close to zero.
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Written by: Val Kilmer, from Richmond Hill | |
| |  | That is correct. There needs to be an understanding that if there is such a hard time finding people, increase what you will pay them and they will come. People also need to understand that managers don't need to be paid more then their employees just becuase of egos. |  |
Written by: John IT Pro, from | |
| |  | As someone in an IT management position, I can confirm that finding good people is a REAL challenge. This is for good, stable, reasonable-paying, (union) government jobs.
Since there are few *formal* qualifications to prevent immigrants from taking IT jobs (e.g.medicine, engineering, accounting, etc.) , I don't buy the "driving taxis" scenario.
If you can't get an IT job, I can imagine the following reasons:
1) Your expectations are not realistic. You may have read too many Silicon Valley magazines promising in excess of $100K. Not going to happen here, my friend.
2) You can not demonstrate people skills. Beleive it or not, these are as important (sometimes more) than technical skills. If you have worked as a waiter, customer service at Safeway, or some similar job that shows you know how to handle people, that's worth more (to me, at least) than knowing how to set a Cisco router.
3) Communications skills. The days of huddling in front of a screen in the basement are over (see #2). You need to be able to ciommunicate effectively with co-workers and customers. If you are ESL, take a few courses (we actually sponsor immigrants for this in order to help bring up their skill sets).
4) Be prepared to move to where the jobs are.
5) Personal hygiene, attitude, etc.
The shortage is real, I can assure you of that - every day I see signs. Even the colleges and universities are struggling with how to cope with the huge drop in enrollment for IT programs. |  |
Written by: 0xG, from Richmond | |
| |  | I agree that Canada certainly needs to welcome immigrants and recognize their qualifications, but I also know that there are people that have less ability than their paperwork indicates. There needs to be an evaluation method as to a person's qualifications other than the honour system.
I also think that much more needs to be done to keep people in the business and keep opportunities open for those who need new skills or have been out of an IT job for a period of time. The current trend of attaining new employees by raiding the competition does little to help attract newcomers and even less for those who are temporarily out of work.
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Written by: Henry Scott Cowan, from North York, ON | |
| |  | It seems to be a common theme these days that companies are complaining about the lack of IT professionals to fill the IT positions they have. Then on the other hand the IT professionals complaining about the lack of good IT jobs. So who is right?
I think most of the blame needs to fall on the IT industry in failing to bring the importance of training from all levels. It can't be up to the IT pro to fill all the training needs, corporations need to pay the bill to keep training going. Yes it is costly and no one wants to pay for it but it needs to be done. I think this is the main reason we are in the position we are today. There are lots of talented IT professionals here in Canada and companies need to see that and just train them in their short falls.
The IT industry needs to get together and be more like the trades in how they deal with work. A general certification to tell industry that an IT pro has the skills necessary and a union to regulate the industry. |  |
Written by: Buck, from Barrie | |
| |  | As a successful IT Systems Manager who was let go in September 2001 and who tried desperately to get another job as an IT Systems Manager for 3 years without success, I say what a bunch of malarky. Companies like Bell and TD wouldn't even give my resume a second look let alone grant me an interview during my job search. How many other homegrown losers in the IT market like me are sitting on the sidelines today. How do you think we fully qualified Canadians feel about new immigrant workers coming in to take our jobs when we weren't given a fair chance at success? You figure it out. How would you feel? |  |
Written by: Unemployed IT Manager, from Mississauga | |
| |  | I can't agree more. The problem here is unemployment and underemployment in the IT field. It is so difficult to negotiate a fair deal here, as most head hunters and employers only look at the $ sign. That's their bottom line. Very often, qualification and experience are hardly a consideration factor. If anyone is looking for a seasoned IT personnel to start work ASAP, please look closer. You really didn't have to go overseas. |  |
Written by: Ellen, from Toronto | |
| |  | organizations have a hidden agenda here - to drag down the salaries of IT workers. I run a large-ish department of over 200 developers plus an outsourced department in Bangalore of over 100.
It is as easy to recruit developers in Canada as it is to recruit them in Bangalore. The problem, in both Canada and in Bangalore (and in the US where we have a small office), is that it is often difficult to obtain specific skills - Ajax and Ruby on Rails, for examples.
The solution is to recruit a smart developer and put him or her through intensive training in the required skill.
Note too that head hunters fan the flames of scarcity and shortage since it helps their case. And the large enterprises (and their HR staff) go along with the scarcity view because it keeps them employed.
In summary, various professions and organizations fan the flames of IT worker scarcity to serve their own purposes and the poor Canadian worker suffers. |  |
Written by: Ellen, from Markham | |
| |  | Bell talks a lot about this but actually there are lot of IT Immigrants working in Bell in customer Service (non IT related) jobs. Bell should fist tap in this pool |  |
Written by: Bawa, from | |
| |  | I'm in the same boat, trying to get back to being an IT Manager, with over 25 years experience. Bell and TD are only trying to get cheap labour and maximize their profits. Not fill the IT gap. I was just turned down again by TD Bank last week.
Dear Candidate,
Thank you for your interest in employment opportunities with TD Bank Financial Group. We received your application for the position of IT MANAGER.
We have reviewed your application with great interest, however, we are currently pursuing candidates we believe more closely match our current requirements for this position. Your online profile information will remain available for future reference.
Please continue to visit the Careers / Job Opportunities section of www.td.com to update your personal details, review current job listings, and apply for new job opportunities.
Thank you for your interest in TD Bank Financial Group, and we wish you success in your future endeavors.
Human Resources
TD Bank Financial Group
This is sheer nonsense, what are they looking for. The IT Guru and one man show to run the entire Bank ? They are creating job descriptions and "Must Have" areas, which nobody has. I suppose many people bent the truth on their resumes, but it will bite them later. I got my current position because someone had embellished their resume, they were fired and I was hired. I just feel it's time to move back to an IT Manager position. |  |
Written by: John, from Brampton | |
| |  | The discrimination here is too high.
How non-qualified people hire a qualified people?
There are thousands of non-employed IT people put the IT managers almost refuse to hire them because they are more educated than them and their network.
IT managers hire the people they trust not the people they have the skills.
We have to stop the word "Networking", and eliminate the agencies from the market, they do nothing, gain more money from the IT workers, but they have a good network. What a good job!!
The economic is in a recession now, and Toronto infrastructure in need to 140 billion dollars!!!
The economic will suffer too much and will not been able to rebuild if we continue behaving like this.
Please try to save the future of our kids ASAP.
We will destroy our economic if we do not find a real solution.
We have to stop the “The government of Canada encourage new employees to come and work for Canada, but the Canadian employers do not trust the foreign experience.” from the government web site.
We have to face the facts instead of hiding our heads in the sand to please some body.
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Written by: M.W, from Toronto | |
| |  | Sounds like more of the John Roth "The sky is falling!!!" monologue - a self serving but bogus ploy. Unemployed IT Manager is finding it tough to compete because all the major companies want is easier access to cheaper meat - FULL STOP. There are many unemployed, under employed or misemployed folks in Canada. Like the punch line in an old joke - they know how, just want chance!!! |  |
Written by: Stephen McPherson, from Bradford | |
| |  | Once again I read that the “sky is falling” in the I.T. industry because employers cannot find staff. I have 15 years experience as an IBM mainframe programmer/analyst.
I was laid off in mid 2000 when the Y2K projects were completed in my company. Since then, I have NOT been able to find any I.T. work whatsoever! Thinking that IBM mainframe programming was passé, I went back to school and upgraded my I.T. skills to current technology as an e-commerce/website developer.
Still I am not able to find ANY work in the I.T. field.
Surprisingly, I get calls from recruiters asking me if I know of anyone that has IBM mainframe programming skills!!!! Whenever I respond that I have those skills, the line goes quiet and they politely say “we will call you later” and they hang up. End result, I never hear back from these very recruiters that say that they are looking for mainframe programmers.
I have not worked in the I.T. field since mid-2000 but I do have 15 years experience programming on IBM mainframes. How long would it take me to get back up to speed programming in Cobol, PL/1, IMS, DB2? It would NOT take me more than a few days to get myself “back up to speed” programming in these languages.
What I am hearing is that employers would rather have unfilled opening for weeks on end instead of hiring someone that would take at most a week “get up to speed”.
I live in Mississauga and I would be more than happy to hear from recruiters that are looking for IBM mainframe programmer/analysts in the Greater Toronto area.
Recruiters, feel free to contact me at paulstanwayjr@hotmail.com if you have any IBM mainframe programming work available in the Oakville, Mississauga, West-end/Central Toronto areas. |  |
Written by: P.S. in Mississauga, from Mississauga | |
| |  | Amazing? Why they do not hire the people in the market and why they distrust the foreign experience? But business is more important the human, by having such reports, they can hire people with less salary and imagine the other business like renting, food, car ,..etc. they will gain too much too.
Business will destroy this country if we do not take any corrective actions
Speak up
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Written by: Sandiah, from Toronto | |
| |  | 2 years after obtaining a b.com in IT MANAGEMENT and I'm just about ready to give up on the IT field. I've been applying on a constant basis to both TD and Bell for nearly 7 years, NEVER a reasonable response or interview. These articles are a farce. |  |
Written by: Jeff, from | |
| |  | Before publishing this type of article, you need to survey how many immigrants are refused by employer. They always ask for Canadian experience. Second sober thing to say NO is "You don't have Canadian ascent in your language (poor english)". Third thing "Do you have any reference ?" My five years of experience in Canada says this article does not reflect true picture. I know so many people (Canadian citizens) who are working in USA just because they are not getting any opportunity in GTA area. I am one of them. |  |
Written by: Manish Shah, from Toronto | |
| |  | I have to agree, the so-called "IT skills shortage" is manufactured BS, mostly manufactured by organizations like Bell and Telus so that they can hire from countries with strongly subsidized education systems. As the senior IT manager of a mid-size organization, I know that the best way to get talent is to do what Southwest Airlines does and "hire for attitude (and ability), train for skill". Bell would rather import cheap labour that already has (on paper) the necessary skills, although often the ESL difficulties prevent the individuals from being effective or happy. My company has been bought or merged 4 (yes 4) time in the last 6 years, so I have of necessity been looking for most of that time and have received little interest. Hmmmm, I HAVE the skillsets they say they are looking for (except telecom experience, or for the banks, Financial experience). The big banks in particular are very, very hypocritical about their IT hiring practices - either you worked your entire career at a bank or you are a (low-cost) immigrant, otherwise you don't even get an interview regardless of your creds.
This whole exercise is just a way to let those who can't outsource to Bangalore like IBM does get access to the same cheap labour, and it is frightening that our government is buying into it. I would love to hear a Bank or Bell or Telus respond to this comment. |  |
Written by: Noel Mcleod, from Toronto | |
| |  | I couldn't agree more with Noel Mcleod from Toronto and add that skills shortage is a joke aimed to lower the cost of operations.
The future is in private consulting. Companies always pay more for "consultants" than their own employees. |  |
Written by: Al Del Vecchio, from Vancouver | |
| |  | They poll the companies that answer to help lower the wages. how about ITWorld doing a poll of the subscriber like: How many years of experience do you have ? How many YEARS are you looking for job ? and see the shortage they whine about.
Never mind the specific experience with a branded product, If I have 10 year of experience with oracle, I can adapt quite fast to MySql or SQL Server! I AM then a DB specialist by any mean.
Even with a 2-5 years gap!
Let see if we have 'shortage' or 'shortsight". |  |
Written by: Claude, from montreal | |
| |  | There are multiple issues here, some already mentioned in this thread:
-Non-qualified people hiring qualified ones. Time and time again HR staff, agencies etc. ask for every acronym in the alphabet soup without having any idea how much time, effort and what kind of individual would it take to acquire these skills; If you ask them how much more would they pay for somebody who has the extra skills, most of the time they have no answer;
-Layers and layers of agencies are staffed with people with no knowledge or interest in understanding the business of their clients. I've been told numerous times that they hire on attitude, and there is no incentive to understand the dynamics. This why you have undergrads in biology assessing the skills for IT positions;
-Bad reputation of IT environments, from the same school of thought as 'math is bad for girls';
-No reliable benchmark to rank IT candidates; anybody can claim they are an expert, just as the person pumping gas is named a petroleum transfer engineer; The value created by an experienced software developer goes unrecognized;
-The cost structure for being a consultant is higher than for employees. This is only one of the reasons why consultants are paid more;
Lastly, how many IT un- or under-employed have talked to their MP or MLA? This could be very effective because, ultimately, politicians care about votes. |  |
Written by: A, from Vancouver | |
| |  | "Time and time again HR staff, agencies etc. ask for every acronym in the alphabet soup without having any idea how much time, effort and what kind of individual would it take to acquire these skills;"
If HR is doing the recruiting instead of the manager responsible, that's everybody's loss: HR's time is wasted; Management doesn't get the team it wants; potential employees don't get proper consideration.
This is a very backwards practice, if it still happens (colour me doubtful).
PS: WTF with the "US English" spell checking here; is this not "IT World Canada"? |  |
Written by: 0xG, from Richmond BC | |
| |  | I've been working outside Canada for the last ten years. The last two I've been on monster and workopolis trying to return home to a decent salary. Last autumn I hung around in Toronto for two months, looking. No bites. No interviews. I have an engineering degree and 13 years working experience in IT. |  |
Written by: Joe, from Sydney, Australia | |
| |  | Monster & Workopolis are a joke.<p>
You ask for minimum qualifications & every Tom, Dick, Harry sends you their resume regardless.<P>
What do you mean by "decent salary"?
Send me your resume and I will look at it for sure... |  |
Written by: 0xG, from Richmond BC | |
| |  | I'm newcomer, I've been living here 14 months. I'm a dental technologist (ceramist), I've been working in this field 13 years. I couldn't find job in my field, ALL the employers are a asking for Canadian experience.Finally I gave up. Now I have three choices, First, change my career by st
udying new field. Second, change my career to labor works. Third,return backhome.
Now the second choice is too hard for me, I've never used to do that, and it's very hard to throw away 13 years experience just to work as labor worker.
The third choice, that meanes I lost everything.
Now if I go to the first choice, I would like to study something in IT fields, that I like this field and I have found it very close to my ambitions.
One friend of mine who works in IT fields in US advised me to study network engineering at any recognized privet school in Toronto. after that continue my studing in Cisco system and get ccna and ccnp.
I've found some schools have this programs MCSE,MCSA,MCP,CCNA,CCNP.
The tuition fees are too high $17000.
Now here my quastion, does this course worth to spend my money and time?
What is the future for this job in Canada, and is it easy to find job as entry level?
If the annswer is negative, so what is the alternative study in IT fields?
Really I need your help
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Written by: Ahmad, from Toronto | |
| |  | I think it depends on the specific skills wanted matched with the experience. Does anyone know of unemployed .net and java developers? if there are, then that's a serious problem |  |
Written by: Paolo, from | |
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