| Layoffs scare students away from IT
By:
Patrick Thibodeau and Rafael Ruffolo
- ComputerWorld Canada
(07 Mar 2008)
The Information and Communications Technology Council president says enrollment in university IT programs has dropped sharply, and media coverage of layoffs is partly to blame. How to make IT look cool again Enrollment in university computer science programs is much lower than it was five years ago, and a Canadian industry expert blames the mainstream media. New data from the Computing Research Association (CRA), which follows year-after-year enrollment and graduate trends at 170 PhD-granting institutions, shows the decline in enrollment may have stopped. But this leveling is happening only after the number of bachelor degree graduates has, apparently, hit a trough. In the 2006-07 academic year, only 8,021 students graduated with computer science degrees from these schools – the lowest number of graduates this decade. By contrast, in 2003-04 – the high point of this decade - 14,185 students were awarded bachelors degrees in computer science, according to CRA data. In Canada, the situation doesn’t appear to be much better. “Our numbers are just as dire, if not worse,” Paul Swinwood, president of Ottawa-based Information and Communications Technology Council (ICTC), said. “What we’re seeing is enrollment dropping dramatically year after year, and in fact, we have some Canadian institutions that have room for 300 or 400 students for their first year intake.” “It turns out less than 10 per cent of those numbers actually enroll, so expect next year and beyond to offer even smaller graduates.” Earlier this year, the ICTC published its own report on enrollment numbers among Canadian universities. The study looked at undergraduate, graduate, masters and PhD students at close to 40 universities across the country. It found that declining enrollment rates commenced in about 2002 among Canadian institutions, resulting in enrollments numbers at 36 per cent to 64 per cent of their peak values. “Everybody is at fault for this trend, from the provinces down to the education system,” Dalhousie computer science professor Jacob Slonim, who also served as a lead on the ICTC report, said. “Education in this country ignores computer science in high school, so students come in with virtually no understand of computing besides what they see with video games.” Swinwood agreed, pointing the finger at the lack of positive coverage for the IT industry in the mainstream media. “Every time Nortel lays off employees, it makes major headlines,” Swinwood said. “But when CGI says it’s looking for 2,500 new people, we never hear about it. The fact that I’m forecasting the need for 80,000 new IT people by 2010 hasn’t made headlines either.” And while it doesn’t appear that any easy solution is in sight, Swinwood said the Canadian IT industry could start to alleviate the problem by making a more concerted effort to reach out to high school students and career councillors. From ComputerWorld Canada “I’d like to see each IT employee adopt a high school to give the students and teacher a good resource to information about IT and the industry,” Swinwood said. In the U.S., the numbers are increasing. In the fall of 2006, new computer science enrollments were at 7,840, and the CRA says new enrollments are now at 7,915 for the fall of 2007. The organization measures the numbers of students who have recently declared computer science as their major. “It's too early to say if it's going to be a turnaround,” said Jay Vegso, a CRA staff member who prepared the analysis and developed charts showing the trends, but he says the enrollment data over the last three years is showing a leveling off. Swinwood says the Canadian industry could make computer science more popular by enhancing the “cool factor” of working in IT. Everybody wants to be a CSI forensic investigator these days because its popularity on television, he said, but nobody thinks about the IT development that allows the people on that show to do their jobs. “Maybe those forensic investigators need to go back to the office one show and say, ‘Hey Charlie the IT guy, I need you to do this, this and this,’” Swinwood joked. “And then Charlie can become the hero for creating the IT program that allows the team to solve the case.”
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| |  | A significant gap in this study is Technical College enrollment predictions. My organization employs at least 150 IT and over 50% are grads of technical colleges. Training for specific technologies as needed is more efficient for us. Maybe the problem is the CS degree is being replaced by students fast tracking with shorter diplomas programs. |  |
Written by: Sandy, from PEI | |
| |  | '“I’d like to see each IT employee adopt a high school to give the students and teacher a good resource to information about IT and the industry,” Swinwood said.'
Not likely, the reason IT enrollment is down is because IT Professionals like myself are telling our children and anybody else that will listen, to stay as far away from IT as they can get. IT Professionals are overworked, underpaid and treated like slaves. Why would someone spend 4 years in university and then the rest of their lives upgrading and maintaining certifications just for average wages and a 24/7 commitment to their employer.
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Written by: Trek, from | |
| |  | I agree. I tell anybody who asks for advice, to avoid IT and IS. I am in BI (not IT infrastructure), but the issues are similiar. To top it off, higher level promotions seem to always go to non-IT/IS managers and directors. It has gotten to the point where many of my colleagues long for a severance package; so, not only is enrollment falling - existing staff want to leave. |  |
Written by: B.l. Pro, from Markham | |
| |  | I agree with both your comments, I am in the IT field now from a technical college. University was too expensive, and yes, we as IT are in demand 24/7 to our employers. However I feel there's no price to pay for a job inside the industry you love. And I do agree that High Schools do not show the potential the IT field has. It's a shame they do not teach more, I mean by 12 yesars old I was building my own computers. Why can't they show these simple things in high schools now to people interested in general maintenance and upgrades. Saves a single person so much a year for it and can spark the slightest flame in them to make them want to head to IT. I would never deny my child a field he/she loves. |  |
Written by: Chris, from | |
| |  | I often get a kick out of these forums despite the sometimes serious nature of the problems under discussion. It's been some years since I've been in a classroom, but in criticizing secondary educators it's important to note that, in most jurisdictions secondary school IT courses are OPTIONS. If you want to reach students at this level the hills to climb are essentially the same as those at other levels. You've got to first get their attention - no surprise there! One secondary teacher recently admitted to me that at his school enrollment in music programs was increasing at more than twice the rate of enrollment in Computer Science. His explanation: Sympathetic (and hence, involved)community and admistration, talented, innovative and charismatic teachers (themselves often active practicing musicians outside of school), active involvement with neighbouring bands, orchestras, pop artists . . . well, you get the idea. Oh, and appropo to one of the above comments - programs like "Idol".
In other cases, here in Alberta at least, technically inclined people are being very aggressively recruited by the skilled trades. I am aware of IT graduates, at least in technical schools, double certifying (one year extra) and ending up in trades such as Instrumentation at wage and benefit levels that most IT companies won't, or can't, even begin to touch. |  |
Written by: Ken, from | |
| |  | That's right: blame the media when all they are doing is reporting that IT is a lousy place to work unless you happen to be in India!!! Sorry if the truth hurts, but it is not the media at fault, but instead it is the short-sighted management types who only see the bottom line but don't realize they aren't seeing the $value of the value-added staff they just shipped off to unemployment land. Goodbye company history and culture, and goodbye to anyone who actually cared about adding value to the company. The bottom line is that loyalty is FAR more important than saving a few dollars by shipping the function overseas. Wake up MBA's, you are NOT improving the bottom line, you are destroying the soul of the company. |  |
Written by: Howard Russo, from Mississauga | |
| |  | All predictions about 80.000 IT staffs shortage.
That's fantasies not based on anything.
The real situation software development and help desk support moves to India.
It doesnt exist any shortage there plenty programmers who cannot find it job. Talking about myself i was working as programmer from (1997-2002) after downturn i couldnt get anything and moved to lower paid tech support. I have many friends who left programming after 2002 and changed careers for electricians and truck drivers because they have to pay mortgages and cannot afford wait infinitely for one of opportunities from forecasted 80.000 shortages.
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Written by: Alex, from | |
| |  | First, offshore outsourcing of IT positions is not as prevalent in Canada as the US. It happens but to a much lesser degree. Second media and popular culture are to blame for the downturn in post-secondary enrolment. Enrolment in all IT training, university, college and private schools is down 75% from 10 years ago (pre-Y2K) and some programs has closed completely. (Anybody see an ITI school lately) |  |
Written by: Derrick, from Saint John, NB | |
| |  | Face it. Anyone who works the from line in IT (ie. Network or Server support) knows you don't get vacation or personal time. Vacation is just a period where you don't have to work nearly as hard.
If you support anything in IT, you are treated like a piece of equipment. Your employer has bought a resource, and intends to use it at it's maximum intensity until it burns out and needs to be replaced.
If you wany to get people into IT, this has to change. Anyone smart enough to be useful, should be smart enough to know he can have a much better life if he takes up plumbing. They would make more too. |  |
Written by: Bill, from PEI | |
| |  | If you have a bright child, would you push him/her towards a computer science or software engineering discipline? The systemic problems in the industry with chronic oversupply, overcommitting and underbudgeting ensures that individuals' career life is miserable, unstable, doomed. For academically gifted individuals, the IT/SW path is least financially and intellectually rewarding of any choice they could make. What I really don't get too, is the rhetoric that we have an undersupply of workers in the field. In Ottawa, there are tens of thousands of underemployed software workers that can't get hired other than possibly at Home Depot yet guys like Jeffrey Dale at OCRI are spinning statistics to make it look like a looming crisis - somehow that makes his evangelist speaking engagements more marketable, and gets him the morning spot on CBC. The public, and their children are voting with their feet and running from this field. |  |
Written by: Danno, from Ottawa | |
| |  | I would definitely not pay the tuition fees these universities ask for a CS degree. Why? So he could end up in a support position? How many of us in the IT field actually went to University to get a CS degree? I just went and got my MCSE and by doing that it opened up the doors for me. I'm getting paid the same amount as the University grad in the cubicle beside me. We have to face the fact that we are not revenue generators unless we work for an integration company. Being employed by an integration company then exposes us to economic downturns. After all, we are just one big expense. If you asked my son what scared him away from IT, he would probably say, "My dad." |  |
Written by: Expense, from | |
| |  | There is far more to IT than programming and networking. The hardware repair segment has been completely lost in the suffle and is not being addressed at any level. Even in the darkest days of the 2k downturn, PC's and printers were still being fixed and as a hands-on skill, the jobs are still here. I need real technicians that can diagnose and repair printers, PC's and computer related components. Computer Hardware Technician should be a respected academic/trade option and I wouldn't have to keep wages low to offset the thousands it costs me every year to educate "IT" grads. |  |
Written by: Hardware Service, from Medicine Hat, Alberta | |
| |  | While its true, there are jobs and oppurtunity but what does it pay? The service industry with respect to Hardware has always been a low paying grunt type job with lousy hours, low compensation and little room for advancement. I've been in the computer/electronics industry for twenty years, the last 10 in network/intergration support. Things are paying less, and yes, Layoffs are everywhere! I will discourage my kids from anything related to this industry. A general degree in business will take anyone much farther than getting specialized in a ocupation that is limited and prone to a layoff. The continuous training and self education, certifications and time demands simply do not corespond to the low pay. |  |
Written by: JB, from | |
| |  | The issue here is wages. Several people have posted the same thing. It managers can avoid the issue all they want, but the grunt workers are being paid worse not better than they were 10 years ago. Why would someone want to invest in a University education to pay their dues in a low paying job in a call centre or service depot when they can go work in the oil fields and back money hand over fist? They're young and full of energy.
If you want to attract new people it's really very simple ... Pay Better! |  |
Written by: LongtimeTech, from Edmonton | |
| |  | I blame the parents!
(Am I the first here?)
Also, "What message are we sending?"
And "Who's thinking about the children?"
bleh |  |
Written by: Herman, from | |
| |  | Back in the day I avoided going into University because at the time, they were still using punch cards, and I was a kid that couldn't see the bigger picture. Wrong move overall, but it was still good to get real-world 'hands on' experience. I say 'wrong move' because, despite my talents, I was repeatedly passed over for jobs because of my lack of 'an education' or certification. So I was stuck doing sales and tech support in call centers for years.
Now there are a LOT more jobs out there, and I'm in a Sys/Network Admin role now. I don't mind the implied 24/7 availability because I love my job, and so do a lot of other techies. But now what I'm reading (and seeing) is a lot of outsourcing. As IT becomes (slowly) more bulletproof, it's being commoditized. Our old 'tech' functions are being sent to specialized companies like CGI, or as far away as India. A lot of times these companies will absorb the existing IT staff, at a fraction of their former wages, of course. I find myself pushed towards middle management (the first ones to get axed) with an integral role to business functionality. While I'm still good at doing this, I don't enjoy it as much as 'hard-core' tech work.
As for the forecasts and openings, they're totally farcical. When the industry was crying that there were 80,000 unfilled openings, I was stuck in a call center. When I HAD a position in business or government, a lot of these 'openings' were fictional! They were 'supposed' to have an IT staff of, say, 20 (sometimes were MANDATED to), yet only HAD a staff of 8 to 12. The other positions 'existed', yet they never bothered filling them for budgetary reasons... |  |
Written by: Troy, from Nova Scotia | |
| |  | OK, if you're not watching CBC's "The Border", you don't know Heironymous Slade, the alpha tech who makes everything work instantly. Never a bad connection! He eats junk food, makes inappropriate remarks, never encounters glitches, is ahead of his team's technical requirements and in nanoseconds scans so many screens in front of him that he looks like an air traffic controller. If they didn't have him, there would be no program. He even had a girlfriend. Now if that isn't a role model.....we are in trouble. Monday night, CBC at 9 PM. Get your kids to watch it! |  |
Written by: Y. Baert, PMG, from Winnipeg | |
| |  | It is exactly this kind of portrayal of the IT career that causes problems. Managers see this kind of stuff and think that IT guys are like gremlins that can live off crumbs, sleep in the server room and can solve problems by waving a mouse around!
It just isn't so! Well at least not once you realize you want a life.
People want the speed of a microwave oven but don't want to wait for the oven to be spec'd out, designed, built, tested, revised, tested some more and then released. Well, that's the reality of good IT - whether it's software development, network design or even tech support. It takes time.
My 6-year-old son says he wants to do what I do. I tell him I'm a cowboy now. At least at that job he'll be broke, and work long hours too, but people will leave him alone.
Or he could go and work the oil patch and make 6-figures his first year, straight out of high-school, for being the equivalent of a yard boy.
Why am I in IT again? Oh yeah, because I get paid to do my hobby. |  |
Written by: Guy, from Red Deer | |
| |  | People are spending 15-20k for an education to come out of school and be told that they MUST start at a very low salary. It is a little discouraging. Once again no one wants to give the new grad a chance. They would rather have the up to date skills they have learned used in a helpdesk environment. I see it time and again. Is sad because there is nothing more beneficial than the new grad who is willing to put in the time, the up keep on new technologies and skills, just to have them told that they must work the menial jobs when they can do so much more. |  |
Written by: Shawn Prosper, from Stratford | |
| |  | You got to be kidding to get away that easy, you hooligans, first you let the student pay all the bills, then you kick him around with hiring and firing practices of the last century andthen you cry foul because nobody wants anything to do with computing science. You dug your own grave, die by it. Take a note how SAP did it, for example, in Walldorf, that is cosmic distances to the Canadian practice.
Repectfully you greedy employers, media, and governments who do not care about its taxpayers.
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Written by: Roland Orlie, from Toronto | |
| |  | I dont just blame the media for displaying IT job loses, i blame the industry for reducing the prices so low the competition outweighs the willingless to keep working in it.
Larger firms are forcing smaller firms into a standoff.
Smaller firms are not going to hire first year gradutes to do a 20 year vet IT guru job. When the margin is so low to price the jobs.
It even revolves around the Hardware market reducing the prices so low, companies look for cheaper labour or learn how to do it themselves.
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Written by: ROBERT ALDRIDGE, from Exeter | |
| |  | It looks like now the media has an agenda to attract more and more people to IT so that the competition makes even the top IT people get paid like an entry-level job in accounting. And yes, those smart enough to develop into gurus know this and get much better return elsewhere. |  |
Written by: SA, from Edmonton | |
| |  | I agree with you here. I try and tell people to stay away from IT. Although I love my job, there are aspects of it on the whole that I simply do not like. As you mentioned, being available 24/7, information overload, and not being appreciated when the work is done. You find once the "IT project" is launched you see plenty of 'mid-management' and people who had nothing to do with the project, lining up for "photo-ops" and awards. To me that is the biggest pi$$ off! In a nutshell as IT you have to scarifice a lot for very little. Whereas you see non-IT folk on your floor do very little for the same pay or more. I can only see appreciation if your company actually develops software orelse you are like the rest of us - In a huge corporation stored in a "IT Dept", somewhere in the back, who nobody likes, because you cannot help them 'print a attachment' when you have more pressing issues at hand. If they don't want to teach programming in highschool, they should atleast teach these future office workers on how to perform simple tasks on a PC: print, save OFTEN etc.... |  |
Written by: Blah, from | |
| |  | I agree with you here. I try and tell people to stay away from IT. Although I love my job, there are aspects of it on the whole that I simply do not like. As you mentioned, being available 24/7, information overload, and not being appreciated when the work is done. You find once the "IT project" is launched you see plenty of 'mid-management' and people who had nothing to do with the project, lining up for "photo-ops" and awards. To me that is the biggest pi$$ off! In a nutshell as IT you have to scarifice a lot for very little. Whereas you see non-IT folk on your floor do very little for the same pay or more. I can only see appreciation if your company actually develops software orelse you are like the rest of us - In a huge corporation stored in a "IT Dept", somewhere in the back, who nobody likes, because you cannot help them 'print a attachment' when you have more pressing issues at hand. If they don't want to teach programming in highschool, they should atleast teach these future office workers on how to perform simple tasks on a PC: print, save OFTEN etc.... |  |
Written by: Blah, from | |
| |  | After 15 years in IT, I'm leaving. If you're not part of the revenue stream (bonus to the execs) you're a utility expense. I find it so funny to watch IT guys at the conventions drooling over what the next version can do for their company then go to their bosses to approve a budget for the new software. |  |
Written by: Leaving, from | |
| |  | I read the wanted adds written by HR pros...
exp with COBOL, fortran, C, C++, JAVA, JCL win, UNIX (linux ) aix would be nice, knowledge of virtualization, CASE tools. CS degree min 3-5 years exp 45k 2 year contract. |  |
Written by: Trendy, from Toronto | |
| |  | "I read the wanted adds written by HR pros... exp with COBOL, fortran, C, C++, JAVA, JCL win, UNIX (linux ) aix would be nice, knowledge of virtualization, CASE tools. CS degree min 3-5 years exp 45k 2 year contract."
LOL. Another example of what IT people are worth. Send the job to India. |  |
Written by: Michaelangelo, from Toronto | |
| |  | Because I don't want my kids fixing fax machines. |  |
Written by: Michaelangelo, from Toronto | |
| |  | Declining enrolment just means nobody is willing to take the new vow of poverty as well as the ongoing vow of celebacy just for the privilege of being worked to an early death anymore. The people who are taking CS now are making a mistake and should leave immediately to a better paying career at Starbucks. Why not do something more lucrative like donating just some of your time to helping the rich instead of all of it? Maybe volunteer for the Olympics or the Conservative Party or something. Maybe just wash Swinwood's Porsche. |  |
Written by: Andy, from Vancouver | |
| |  | No one party is entirely at fault. Yes it's unfair, but I come to accept the realities of how the world view I.T. profession.
1) IT workers is treated as a tool that can fix things in the office. Not directly generating money for the company (in general). Marketing and Sales will always get credit because they are closing deals and getting new clients. All about increasing shareholders' value.
2) Media poorly portray I.T., we're always geeky, sleep in server rooms, no girlfriend, do amazing tricks with the computer, etc. Movies, tv shows gives public a false image of regular I.T. worker.
3) I.T. shoots itself on the foot. We are always coming up with bright ideas to make things more efficient. Whereas it used to take 20 I.T. professionals to run an I.T. dept, now with virtual servers, automation, etc, that number has been vastly reduced. I don't know of any other profession that invents new ways to eliminate their peers.
I got more points to add, but suffice to say, it's no use bitching about it. Need to be smart and just work the system. No more computing for my kids, will force them to business or marketing. It's way too common to see marketing or sales manager in their twenties. Try finding an I.T. manager in the twenties. Been in the industry and that will never happen. Best of luck everyone. |  |
Written by: Kris, from Vancouver | |
| |  | How can anyone take ICTC seriously when it's not doing the right thing with its own IT staffing?
http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=49121 |  |
Written by: Oscar, from Burnaby, BC | |
| |  | I've worked in IT since the Mid 80s. I've taken two 10 day breaks in my career (that includes the weekends, by the way...essentially a one week vacation). I make a decent salary, not spectacular, I stay at companies that seem to care about family stability.
Right now, I work for a pretty healthy not-for-profit....but I don't know of ONE SINGLE PERSON, including myself, that started writing programs that is still willing to count on creating software for a living.
Until 2000-2001 IT was a decent career. There are impossible hours (I cannot tell you the 24 hour days I've worked with only enough time to go home and sleep 4 hours before coming back to work), only passe' pay in my region (ironically it may be what keeps me from getting outsourced, ultimately, maybe not), sometimes lousy attitudes...I was once asked exactly what it was that I contributed to the company..., and frustration with trying to make a computer jump through a spincter. Now, I'm not optimistic any more.
I wish, quite frankly, that though I was not living as well, I could go back to the 80s and stay there. My God, what is our trade policy doing to our countries, our hopes... all the money in the world is useless without hope. I want to work, but not constantly worrying about spending money to get something I NEED to buy.
We are free-trading our souls away. Somebody needs to slam on the brakes, and return to the model where the jobs are at the same locations as the companies.
Yes, it is protectionism. I cannot compete with people whose nation's exchange rate is HORRENDOUSLY undervalued, or who are paid only enough to survive.
I cannot BEG enough to get any tech training. I offered an employer an annual pay increase one time to go to an extended training event for a new software package and was turned down, yet, at other companies, they send work to people who make 1/2 as much...if that much.... and foster the same environment.
We are getting shafted... badly |  |
Written by: John, from Indianapolis | |
| |  | You'll notice I'm afraid to tell people the truth about where I live. Companies don't like it. |  |
Written by: John, from Indianapolis | |
| |  | Why would I go to schools and tell the students about the wonderful world of IT? Why would I want 100s of thousands of new IT grads working for 50% less than what I get paid, thus putting my own job at risk? No thanks.....I think I'll let the illusion go on that IT is not good for you, thus securing my career for another generation. I dont mind having to work harder for more money... Let my kids and your kids all be welders or plumbers....there's good enough money in the trades with all the baby boomers retiring. |  |
Written by: ITGuy, from Edmonton | |
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